The band Rush is releasing a new single today called Caravan, and the album cover consists of a clock face with 12 blatant occult symbols. My question is... were they being clever in their choice, or are they random selections (or at least selections based on appearance rather than meaning)?
Starting at the one o'clock position, we have: brimstone, torrefaction of gold, mercury, winter, zinc, sun or gold, water or Aquarius, essence, Neptune, solve, earth or blackening, and copper.
If anybody wants to see real occult symbolism, just pull out a dollar bill. As far as RUSH having “occult” symbols on their album cover, yes, they are intellectual enough to look shit up before they do or say anything. These symbols are not just “random choices because they look cool.”. The band members are alot deeper than that!!! Why don’t you just stop and smell the flowers for once? Do you even know what most “rock music” consists of? Honest;y? From personal experience and not some crazed evangelical propagandist?
Awesome! Glad to see someone found the symbols, I was stuck, got 7 of em and couldn’t find the rest.
rosc are you counting the oreo cookie symbol as one that you got?
I heard that Rush stands for Rule Under Satan’s Hand. I also heard that Geddy Lee refuses to be photographed near Oreo cookies. Coincidence? I think not!
Yes, I discovered the cookie! it’s mine! mine mine mine mine mine!!
BTW, Catherine, I’ve looked everywhere for the symbol you mention as “solve” but I can’t find it. Do you have a pointer for us?
lol@joe
I love this band! It does not seem as controversial like when I was a kid. I had a button with a naked man standing in front of a pentacle, like a mixture of the two albums, Hemispheres and 2112. This band thinks outside of the box.
I first got the “Solve” (having to deal with solvents, not solving a problem) symbol out of Raymond Buckland’s Signs, Symbols and Omens.
In response to your question, I’ve tried finding an online reference, and interestingly, I have no found one. I say that because most of Buckland’s symbols are pretty basic and well-known.
I’ll also mention that in looking for an internet reference, I found the wavy lines (what I called Aquarius or water) could also mean “multiplication” or “solution.”
Thanks for the pointer to Buckland’s book, I had forgotten it! Gonna have to pick up a copy
As far as the enigmatic meaning behind the symbols, I’m stumped, aside from the vague and general obvious meanings. Maybe Neil Peart will reveal more information later, when the complete album comes out. Or maybe, ultimately, the symbols are semi-random and we assign the meaning ourselves as with most aspects of life.
I am pretty sure they know what they are doing. They have been around the block a few times.
rush never does anything that isn’t intended. those symbols are there for a reason…but rush has always been very pagan.
Starting at the one o’clock position, we have: brimstone, torrefaction of gold, mercury, winter, zinc, sun or gold, water or Aquarius, essence, Neptune, solve, earth or blackening, and copper.
So the corpus of this set of symbols are from a disparate symbolic non group?
If the symbols are not related within a system, then they might as well be random squiggles. Unless a symbol is “before heaven” in Taoist parlance. That meaning having meaning and powert in and of itself rather than as an element of a set or model. Otherwise it only has relevance within the “set” it belongs in.
Like runes mixed in with danaan ogham and sanskrit characters. Or like randomly replacing words in a sentence with english, german, russian and japanese.
At best, it is a suggestive mix but not esoteric. Its syntax is less than pidgin.
I heard that Rush stands for Rule Under Satan’s Hand. I also heard that Geddy Lee refuses to be photographed near Oreo cookies. Coincidence? I think not!
Yeah like Kiss was “knights in satan’s service” over 30 years ago. I seriously hope you are saying this in jest, cos otherwise, well, thanks for contributing to the general ignorance of humankind in the otherwise educated west.
Let’s hope my “thanks” were ironic.
peace, man
There’s a PC board game called “Alchemy” that uses many of these symbols. It’s quite challenging!
One of my favorite Rush lyrics that seems to be a poke at organized religion in general:
“He’s not afraid of your Judgement
He’s seen horrors worse than your Hell
He’s a little bit afraid of dying
But he’s a lot more afraid of your lying
And the things that he fears
Are a weapon to be used against him”
Rush fans are a bunch of geeks who think they are so intellectual. Rush and their fans smugly talk about how others who don’t like their music simply “don’t get it”. Rush fans themselves are the ones who don’t get it. They are always making up excuses for the band.
Peart claims to be an agnostic, yet his lyrics are mystical and very occult, and many Rush albums have a lot of occult symbols on the covers. There are a lot of such occult references in movies, advertisements, corporate logos, buildings, statues, music videos, album covers and lyrics, and yes, the $1 bill. The profane (that means you!) wouldn’t recognize it, yet it is right under your noses!
Stop accusing someone for being an evangelical propagandist, you dolt. The author is correct in her assessment. You should wake up and smell the coffee. Rush isn’t the band that you think they are.
Catherine Beyer looks like the Church Lady. Did someone say Saaaaatan!
Avia has the meanings on her website here:
Rush Symbols Identified
“occult” actually means “hidden” It is not akin to satan. Rush is adopting occult symbols because the message is hidden, but that does not imply they are in league with the devil.
The symbols used here probably don’t mean anything other than “these look cool.” Peart’s lyrics are NOT mystical or occult at all (can “Age” name one occult lyric in any song?) but rather humanistic, being heavily influenced in his early writing by Ayn Rand. His later lyrics were much more personal, dealing with personal loss, aging, death and such things.
As Peart said in “Free Will:”
“You can choose a ready guide in some celestial voice.
“If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.
“You can choose from phantom fears and kindness that can kill,
“I will choose a path that’s clear,
“I will choose Free Will.”
sometimes these things crack me up … Agnostic as defined as someone who doesn’t accept or deny the exsistance of God. If you study anything pagan you will quickly understand that one doesn’t need to believe in God in the classic sense of the word. There is no question some of those symbols if not all of them are used by the occult however they could also come from other places … many symbols have multiple meanings so the real question is what is the meaning that Neil and or Rush put on them … personally I really don’t care they are a great band. I like their lyrics cause they often make me think. I don’t always agree with the conclusion of some of them … Rush is a band for the independant thinker. I think for my self neither their lyrics or this blog will have much influence on what I think about things … everyone is so worried about being dupped or the latest conspiracy … I would be willing to bet you dollars to doughnuts that this lady doesn’t even like Rush … which makes them easy to attack … Most of these religious types attack the things they don’t like … amazing if I don’t like it … its evil LOL
Hey, great call! I picked up the single and couldn’t figure out why I started killing babies and goats so soon thereafter! Well, I can’t stop now- oh well!
The alchemy signs are nothing more than subtle clues in regards to the song direction for the upcoming Clockwork Angels concept album. Neil Peart has never hidden his views .. and if you are intelligent enough ( as most Rush fans are ) , one can easily disect the meanings to his lyrics. Rush is definately the most cerebral band on the planet .. for those of you that ” just don’t get it ” .. maybe you just weren’t blessed with intelligence. Sad truth.
“Occult” is the Latin term which means “secret or hidden”. The secular rock group” RUSH” has been around for a number of years. They have used Occult imagery before (example: The album jacket with the man in front of the Pentagram; 2112.) They have written several songs using Occultism (example: In The Camera Eye). It is no secret that they have either been involved or are still involved in Wicca (Witchcraft) in Canada where they originate from.
The new album “Caravan” using Occult symbols proves that the rock industry has not stopped capitalizing on the Occult.
I am a former solitary Witch. I am now a Christian. I am also an Occult Specialist (specializing on combating the Occult). I live in Texas and operate an anti-Occult ministry. I have been in operation for almost 23-years now. My name is Robby Rush.
If anyone out there in cyberspace wants or needs help dealing with the Occult realm (from a decidedly Christian perspective), e-mail me at robbyrushos@live.com
the rush boys are too brainwashed by the occult practices these assholes deal in.
Its a VERY well known documented fact that a HUGE majority of “rcok stars” who practice occult matters very often experience terrible,unusual,and tragic losses in their live .. usually by the means of untimely and unusual deaths of those close to them,family members.and usually even themselves.Lifeson has had some and so has lee.
Look into Led zep ( as one example) and the several tragedies fatal and near fatal of Plants son,bonham,and Plant himself.Thee are SO many many others with sad and terrible things happening to them.This NOT an attempt to make a point by means of callousness … BUT … IF you consider the untimely tragedies peart suffered both within a year of each other,one with an open mind MIGHT see the relation between the tragedies themselves and obvious ongoing dealing with the occult and reaping the rewards of trying to push their beliefs onto others ( a SUBTLE fact).And one day they will pay a BIG price for the BAD influence they’ve had on others over the years.Seems peart ALREADY has paid TWO supreme sacrifices. For as “deep and intellectual” as peart likes to proclaim to be and come across as being, you’d thing he’d have caught on and wised up.Obviously NOT.So, fascinating to see which of these three will pay another price for their mindless and childish involvment and practicing of the occult.Keep your eyes open.I’m sure karma for this ongoing “promoting of occult matters” is already in the works for the NEXT severe tragedies.Wonder what they’ll be and which of these three will pay the price… once AGAIN.
Rush Rocks!
For one thing Satan is a Christian Invention.
Wicca is a Religion of Peace.
Its main rule is “Harm Ye None”
The WITCHES didn’t burn the Christians!
It’s the Christians That Burnt the Witches!
You Tell Me Who is Evil!
Winter Fyre:
Misguided individuals killed supposed Witches here in the United States in Salem, Massachusetts in the early 17th c. However, in Wicca (aka Witchcraft), there is a basic rule of thumb for those that harm Wiccans known as the “Three-Fold Law of Return”. That is in affect a spell that says “if you hurt me or somebody I love, I can hurt you 3-times over. That is not loving but revenge.
I have been a rush fan since I was 12 in 1976 and listened to 2112 with my older brother. I don’t believe rush is a satanic band. I read recently that “rush” refers to a feeling one achieves while on acid. I would not know. I have never had any interest in drugs. I also read recently that the pentagram was used by the ancient Babylonians in their phony religions. It is also an ancient Christian and Jewish symbol. It was called the star of Solomon and the five points stood for the Pentateuch. Among Christians it was more common than the cross as a symbol and stood for the five wounds of Jesus. It has been adopted recently by the phony religions of Wicca and satanism. It is the beginning of Holy Week. We all need repentance and penance.
Actually Blaine, Rush is not a satanic band…you are correct. They do claim an affinity with Wicca (aka Witchcraft). They use a lot of Occult imagery in their tracts and in LP covers. The Pentagram is not a Christian symbol and has never been such. It is neither Jewish as well. It is however, an ancient Babylonian symbol used in occult rites. I have seen an artifact taken from ancient Babylon ruins that has a Pentagram on it. The Pentagram is the international symbol of Witchcraft/Wicca worldwide, especially in the West.
The Pentagram (with circle) and the Pentacle (without circle) are exclusively pagan. It represents the four forces of nature of Earth, Wind, Fire & Water plus the Spirit. The only symbol that represents Christianity worldwide is the Cross specifically mentioned as such in 1 Corinthians 1:18. (Other Christian symbols are the fish, anchor, etc…)
The other symbol you mention is the Hexagram (6-point star) which also is an ancient Babylonian symbol used in Occult rites. It was never used by the Jews until the late 11-17th century. Even Jewish historians state that it is not Hebrew whatsoever and is not found in the Torah, Midrash, nor Talmud. In fact, it was used in the Israeli flag by Chaz Weisman who founded the the Zionist Movement prior to Israel becoming a nation again in 1948. The symbol was used by King Solomon when he got away from God which can be found in the Old Testament (1 Kings 11:4-6). He did get into Occult practices (infant sacrifice, etc…). In fact, there is ample evidence to prove that during his backsliding years, Solomon may have authored an Occult tome called “The Greater/Lesser Key of Solomon” which makes use of the Hexagram symbol.
Neil Peart is an Objectivist, and as such, an Atheist. Not a Pagan. And personally, I don’t understand how any intelligent person could be anything else.
Atheism is not intelligent, David. To believe in nothing is absolute foolishness. Everything has a reason, “yes”, even atheists. Even the late Charles Darwin knew that.
Robby,
I don’t know where to begin; your ignorance is astounding.
Rush has never “claimed” an affinity with Wicca or ANY religion, for that matter. To claim otherwise is a complete and utter inference alone, and if you actually knew anything about the band, you’d know it wasn’t true.
To say that a pentagram/pentacle are “exclusively pagan” is complete nonsense. You may as well conclude that the Texas state flag has a pagan symbol in the center of the upper left corner. Would you then try to tie together the Texas state flag (and the flags of many other nations which use this symbol- a 5 pointed star) with paganism? Seriously, that’s insane.
While some religions or belief systems (BS) may use these symbols, they are hardly “exclusive” to them.
As to your comment about atheism, once again, you show your ignorance. Atheists don’t believe in “nothing”; rather, they don’t believe in a god or gods. Huge difference.
If you’re going to operate your “ministry” as you call it with the goal of really helping people, at least learn what you are talking about before you spread ignorance. It will help your credibility tremendously. Even if you were once a practicing witch or whatnot, your anecdotal experience doesn’t imply truth.
Dear Ryan:
First, your comments were just rude. Second, I am speaking from the Bible, which I know to be absolute truth. As a Texas resident, I know the difference between a 3-dimensional star (Pentagram/Pentacle) and a simple star in the Texas flag. And as for my anti-Occult ministry, I have been helping people learn the difference between lies and truth. Atheism is the believe in nothing via belief. “A” = “no” & “theism” = “God”. As for the band “RUSH”, I have heard them speak of their spiritual beliefs on live radio back in the 1980’s. Sorry you didn’t catch that program. And just a little fyi, my last name is Rush. – Robby
The red star that is on 2112 is not a pentagram. A pentagram that is used in occult practices is upside down with intersecting lines.
Saying the Rush Red Star is satanic is like saying the stars in the American flag are satanic.
Dear Red:
A reversed star with intersecting lines is -not- a Pentagram. It is referred to as a “Baphomet” and is the internationally recognized symbol of Satanism (aka Sorcery).
To All:
I am not and will not say that the band members of “Rush” are invlolved in Satanism. I am saying that they use Occult imagery to promote albums/cd’s. I heard on the radio back in the 1980’s on a radio station that is now defunct (KTXQ 102 FM, Dallas, Texas) on an interview with a local dj that Geddy Lee was involved with the Occult. Any further comments, questions, etc.. should be addressed to me at my e-mail address of robbyrushos@live.com. Thank you.
Tonya, I have to agree. Rush has a hidden meaning and can be somewhat depicted in their lyrics. Songs as Temples of Syrinxs and Tom Sawyer, definitely give us a picture of their visions for the future. We find this with most Rock bands, especially from the 70’s and 80’s super era. Remember, these guys travel the world and see a lot of shit; so they know more so than most, what is truly going on and choose to express their thoughts in art and musical presentations. I doubt seriously they have Satanic meaning; remember these boys are well trained in the Torah as they are all Hebrew and learned the Torah extensively in school. I think many as such have created their own secret societies, blaring out information via radio waves and sound waves.
Roby you are incorrect, the pagan symbol ichtus represents Christianity, as do others.
Dear Victor:
My name is “Robby” not “Roby”. IXOYE is the Greek word for “fish” & it came to symbolize a tenant of Christianity. The ONLY symbol ordained by the Holy Bible itself is the cross. You can check that out for yourself in 1 Corinthians 1:18.
And just because a person travels a lot and reads the first 5-books of the Old testament, does NOT make them wise or intelligent. Writing music that uses imagery & wording from the Occult makes them pro-Occult & anti-Gospel since the book of Deuteronomy 18:9-14 commands believers NOT to utilize nor practice ANYTHING from the Occult. And in case you didn’t know, Deuteronomy is one of those 5-books of Moses (aka Torah). So in closing Victor… you are incorrect.
P.S. The symbol in the clock of the Caravan cd is the symbol for Brimstone (aka Sulphur) and is used in the Satanic Bible above the 9-Satanic Statements by Anton LaVey (1969). I seriously doubt anyone, unless they are an occultist, could imagine that same symbol with other occult symbols out of the clear blue sky. In other words… they researched it.
Jeez, what a bunch of b.s.! Rush is a rock band, a very talented, intelligent (no, I’m not talking Ph.D. intelligent, but relative to the average person, well-informed…& frankly, from what I’ve learned of the band & seen of the world, they are all a hell of a lot more intelligent & down to earth than a lot of people, Peart’s occasional arrogance (see Ghost Rider) aside) rock band, & who gives a damn what their individual beliefs are anyway? Do you like the music? Great…then listen to it & enjoy. Do you not like the music? Then don’t. I don’t care. I personally love Rush, have since I first bought Caress of Steel on vinyl (yes, that old & I loved that critically ravaged album!). I don’t build my life around their music or lyrics, I just enjoy them. Do I think they’re trying to corrupt the world? No…they’re trying to make good music that’s interesting to them & speaks to their (or at least Peart’s, as primary lyricist) world view, just like any of us like to talk about things that matter to us. If you disagree, who cares? Don’t listen. Otherwise, enjoy.
Dear Shadowspawn:
I care what the individual beliefs are of the members of RUSH and so does my living Saviour, Jesus Christ…
“And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.” – 1 John 4:21 (KJV)
P.S. That also extends to you as well…
RUSH is an extremely talented and gifted group of musicians. It does seem that the group, Peart specifically, is anti religion. Even though I am a believer in Jesus, can I realy blame him? Can anyone?
As far s the occult symbology, it is a typical Church response. If a Christian believer truley believed what we believe we wouldn’t be in fear of superstitions and believe there is a devil under every rock. The world is full of symbology, the question is, what are our hearts full of?
Dear Doug:
This world is on a collision course with Judgement Day. If anyone is bothered with Jesus Christ & Christianity, it is because of people who claim His name that show no desire to reach others for His glory with the gospel message of salvation by grace through faith alone with no works.
Superstition is what non-Christians believe. I should know as I am a former Occultist. Demons are not under every rock, but they do exist as do Angels. To believe that demons are not at work in our world, and “yes”, even in your life, is not only naive but foolish. The Occult is as real today as it was in ancient times. Have you read Acts 19:18-20?
As for the secular rock group RUSH, Alex Lifeson, Neil Peart & Geddy Lee are non-Christians. Period. Let’s pray for their salvation. Amen.
- Robby Rush, OS
http://www.AntiOccult.com
Robby: Please just keep your religious beliefs/opinions to yourself. None of us really cares, we’re just enjoying the music. I’m so tired of holier than thou demagogues who hammer everyone over the head with their beliefs. I don’t care what you believe, I don’t need nor want you praying for me, & I don’t care what you have to say (any more, I’m sure, than you care what I have to say, which is just fine with me). Live & let live. As for whether any of us has read Acts 19:18-20, or anything else–it’s a book. Enjoy!
Dear Shadowspawn:
Tough… and “yes”… it will continue. Thanx!
jeeze – you people kill me… rush has used symbolism for decades – it’s their brand of humor – read their history before you look any more the fool… the whole time machine tour has a steamerpunk theme… one of their prior tours was rotissery chicken/washers and dryers…
gawd – go get educated… please!!
First of all, I’d like to bite the head off the person who managed to make me mad saying RUSH isn’t that great or whatever negative he said. So what if RUSH fans are a bunch of geeks! I’m very proud to be one of those geeks, like I wasn’t one before I started listening. Believe it or not, RUSH is q highly intelligent band. Everything has a meaning to them or to those who choose to listen and enjoy. And those “geeks” are actually mostly middle-aged men who just enjoy good music. I guess I’m different because I’m a girl who’s only sixteen. They’re my favorite band!! Another thing, how could RUSH be satanic? They’re Jewish! Haven’t you ever listened to “Red Sector A” by them? So what if they have a secret meaning on their covers and behind their music? I happen to love it. By the way, I don’t know about you, but I’m sick of pop songs about sex, drugs, women, love, etc. Thank you RUSH!!
Good point Nichole! If you want to save morality why don’t you go pick on the pop “music” industry that target our youth and promote promiscuity or the rap “music” that glorifies violence and degrading women to sex objects. Shame on Rush for using their creativity to produce a form of art. They are talented musicans.
Robby, judge not least ye be judged thyself. I wouldn’t presume to know what anyones current beliefs based on one 30 year old interview. It seems by their lyrics, that they believe in free thought and definitely leave room for interpitation.(imaginitive, vague, thought provoking)
Please don’t condem the freedom to express oneself! Don’t underestimate your brothers and sisters, we are not all the blind ignorate naive sheep ,incapable of making our own conclusions in life, that you’d prefer us to be.
I think it is kinda odd that two people make a comment on the same thread who have a masculine & feminine version of the same name. Almost sounds contrived doesn’t it folks?
Oh and Nicholas… if you actually quote the verse you use out of context in its entirety, you’d realize that Jesus Christ said that if we judge others, make sure it is a standard we live by first so as not to be hypocrites…
“Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgement.” – Jesus Christ, John 7:24
Your odd statement of “prefer us to be” is just that… odd.
Face it folks; no one’s going to change Robby’s limited view of the world, nor should we try…to each his own. Unfortunately, Robby’s “own” is to be a narrow-minded, judgmental, ill-informed bible-thumper who wants everyone to agree with his view & will question the motives of anyone who doesn’t, look for pointless apparent “conspiracies” (oooh, similar names in two adjacent posters, & male/female to boot….what’s up their sleeve?!), & use his so-called “expertise” based on limited information & subjective interpretations of whatever data he wants to use to make his clearly inarguable points. Definitely my last post here, as I frankly don’t care about his views or those of anyone else. Think I’ll just go pop on “Farewell to Kings” again, while I wait for the new album to come out & destroy my soul.
I’d like to point out that Nicole is my middle name and I simply didn’t want to use my real name…Kristen. It’s a little out of place with this conversation, but I listen to classic rock, heavy metal, and everything in between those genres. I don’t know why people bring down metal for being “controversial” because rap is far more offensive. You know, so what if RUSH is musical art…it just sounds good. How many 3 man bands do you know that can replicate such an amazing sound? For example, Slipknot has nine members, I believe, and they can’t replicate the same sound. And I don’t mean to bring down any fan or even the band because I’m a fan myself. It’s hard to compare RUSH to any other band knowing that, say Slipknot, is purposely going for a different sound and/or feel. One more thing I’d like to speak my mind about, RUSH should be at least nominated for the Rock And Roll Hall of Fame, but are being snubbed by musicians and bands who have had “One Hit Wonders” or aren’t even Rock! I saw RUSH for the Time Machine Tour and in their 60s, RUSH could still out number several bands a third of their age! I would have to say they are my favorite band.
Oh, I’d like to correct my mistake. Geddy Lee is the only one who’s Jewish. But they all are different religions. My apologies, I was too mad typing that. I don’t think it should matter the religion of the band. Another example, I absolutely love the band Slayer. The often sing songs that could easily be noticed as Satanism or Nazism, etc. Truly, they’re all Athiests (not believing in any religion) and these topics simply fascinate them. I’m a Christian and could not change religions because of what a band believes in, sings about, or write lyrics for specific purpose. Music is a lot more to me then music, yet it can’t change my opinions excluding knowing talent when I hear it. And of course, it’s all a matter of opinion to people. This is my opinion, and thank you for reading what I have to say.
Kristen, God honors all music that honors Him. The point I have been trying to make to you and others is simply this; what a band portrays of themselves and their music, expresses either a desire to honor God or dishonor God. That’s it. As a Christian, you can do much better than RUSH. Check out Psalm 150:1-6.
As for you ’shadyspoon’, all you can do is exude foolishness to the point that your comic-book username is what makes you return to this article/comment. “Yes” pop in some ole’ RUSH cd and tune out reality to drown your lifestyle in your fantasy life. Perhaps one day, you will ‘grow up’ mentally… AND spiritually.
I may be a Christian, and my name happens to mean Christian, but you have to realize that it isn’t the only religion! Yeah, so I believe He is our savior and Jesus died on the cross for his people, but I can’t discriminate against people who believe differently. By them not being Christian, it doesn’t make them wrong…it’s what they believe. People like you are so hard to get through because you are so one-sided. I don’t think I could pick a better band to listen to then RUSH; they’re my favorite band. Music is pure enjoyment; such a magical thing. Why back yourself into a corner because they aren’t a certain religion or they don’t worship God? You have much to learn, and I feel like such a hypocrite because I’m only sixteen. At least I realize that you’re unbelievable!
Nichole:
Jesus said that He is THE only way to heaven. That means that ALL religions & “yes”, that means ALL religions Nichole, other than Christianity are false and are damning their followers to spend eternity in the lake of fire.
For you to refuse to warn others of their fate when they die is completely selfish. You ‘claim’ to be a Christian, but in reality you are just simply a religious, 16-year old teenager.
P.S. You may be a Christian? Sorry… either you are or not. If you don’t know, you are lost as a goose. Actually, you have a lot to learn about biblical faith.
P.S.S. I bet I know what ‘church you attend as well…
Dear Kristen aka Nichole:
I could argue with you until I am blue in the face, so I will end it here. I am going to let the Bible (God’s divinely inspired, inerrant word) have the last thing to say to you personally…
“When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.” – God, -Ezekiel 3:18 (KJV)
Now that you read the verse above, compare it to your comment to me about other religions and how you personally handle them. That is a sobering thought Kristen. I suggest you take another look at your life and seek the will of God not your feelings on the subject. Adios!
You don’t offend me, but I know I’m Christian. And it doesn’t matter, I don’t even go to church. I’m not a rebellious, stupid, selfish, spoiled teenager…I could care less for myself honestly. If people want to find religion or specific religion, that is the choice they choose to make. I care dearly about those around me, and it wouldn’t change what I feel to know they could be Jewish, atheistic, etc. There are more to people then religions and ways of belief, and I happen to enjoy my life. I don’t need your help. And by the way, Shadowspawn, I couldn’t agree with you more! There is nothing wrong with comic books. Gosh! ……stupid…..
Sorry, I forgot something. I KNOW I’m a Christian! I simply was stating that while I am a Christian, and yet, I don’t agree with other religions…I can’t discriminate against those who aren’t. They’re just people.
Perhaps MR Pert himself can clear things up!
‘Nothing like that, I’m afraid. It is not only absurd and pathetic, but it is also totally incompatible with my philosophy, my work and my beliefs.
I get all kinds of letters from people like this whose perceptions are narrowed and distorted by pre-set values and ideas, telling me the most fantastic things that they have somehow “discovered” in my words! As is ever true – they find what they want to find. Fair enough. I know what I put in there. It isn’t that, and it isn’t this either. Period.
Pert:
“I am writing in response to an article which was written by your reporter Jim Hankins in your issue of July 19, “Group seeks to show rock ‘n roll Satanic.” It was awhile ago, but the article was sent to me through several intermediary steps. Besides, it’s never too late to discuss a matter like this, and as I happen to be a member of one of the groups mentioned, perhaps I can interject a little rationality and truth into such a hysterical exercise in propaganda.
Satanism. Now here is a word that should be kept away from some people the way you should keep matches from children and guns from jealous husbands!
There is a certain trait evident in human nature which some people seem to possess in greater degrees. It derives from a state of insecurity and low self-esteem and shows itself in the actions of those who wish to make themselves look good by making others look bad. You see it everywhere once you start to look for it. People who can’t gain respect for their own merits feel obliged to try and tear down those who do. We see it in the failures who try to prove their aloofness by criticizing the actions of those who actually do something, or in cases like this one where the weak and pusillanimous prove their righteousness by trying to punish the “less-righteous.”
“A big advantage to such an attitude is that it keeps them so involved in other peoples’ lives that they need not examine their own.
So these are the grim-faced hypocrites who are stirring around in the dark places of life hoping to find something – anything – dirtier than their own reflection. And if they can’t find anything – no problem – they’ll just make something up!
And here they are accusing rock musicians of being sincere and dedicated Satanists attempting to poison the souls of America’s youth with subliminal messages of devil-worship. You know that’s almost a very good joke! Almost.
As one who knows many of these “demonic figures” personally, especially some of those mentioned in the article, the idea of some of these sold-out, burnt-out, cynical, strutting peacocks being so deeply and religiously committed to anything (save their “image” and chart numbers) is also a bit of a joke. And a pretty lame one at that!
These nameless mercenaries don’t even demonstrate that kind of commitment in their music: why on earth would they be bothered to go to all that trouble to put anything else into it? All they need (and care) to do is find a kind of lowest common denominator of commercial “acceptability.” Yes, you Christian crypto-fascists, it is a joke! The only problem is – you’re not laughing.
I’m not laughing anymore, either. I’ve started to receive too many questions and letters from confused and impressionable young people wanting to know if it’s true that we worship the devil. Who is it that is corrupting the minds of young Americans? “
Pert cont:”Let us not for one minute forget that this is the same self-righteous mentality that has put itself to work persecuting witches, Christians, Jews, Quakers, Indians, Catholics, Negroes, Communists, hippies and capitalists down through the ages. There’s always somebody to kick you when you’re down. It seems like every group has taken its turn at one end of the stick or the other. From the bitter oppressed to the righteous oppressor is a very short step.
Speaking for myself, as lyricist and drummer for “Rush”, and one of those accused of this heinous crime, I must object, Your Honors. Far from being a closet Satanist, I confess crudely, I don’t even believe in the old bastard! I wonder if that’s better or worse in your eyes, Grand Inquisitor?
I can certainly assure you that my lyrics contain no “demonic” secret messages or cleverly concealed mystical commercials. Nothing like that, I’m afraid. It is not only absurd and pathetic, but it is also totally incompatible with my philosophy, my work and my beliefs.
And for all that “dude”, the secular rock band “RUSH” still uses Occult symbols in their album art. Face it, they capitalize on the Occult irregardless if they believe in it or not. – Robby Rush
Geddy Lee is Jewish and his parent Holocaust survivors who fled to Canada. He has said he isn’t a “practicing” Jew. I have never read or heard Alex Lifeson’s religious views. Peart to me is best described as an “agnostic” rather than an “atheist” as atheism is a religion in itself and Peart is not a believer in organized religion of any kind. “If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice”.
you people are idiots. Plain and simple.
I think it may have something to do with copper and mercury, since both of the hands point to them.
Then again, I could be completely off, as I always am with Rush…
it amazes me how some people have way to much time on their hands to sit around and think this crap up…..the symbols in question are Alchemy symbols……People who think Rush are “Devil followers” are just plain DUMB……This band has been around for years and still will be when the people who don’t understand them aren’t….RUSH FAN FOR LIFE….and the after life as well…….
Well I’m christian guys and I love rush. In fact, it was in my late teens when I felt that God speaking to my heart THROUGH Rush lyrics. Furthermore, Robby….man…don’t be so rigid…Jesus sat down and broke bread and showed love to those people he came to show “the way”. He did not ever use his finger to point things out or tell people how they were wrong or evil…in fact he left that for them to figure out on their own by being an example or discussing things in a manner that made the walk away with more questions….questions that continued that same conversation in their own head. Acting and speaking Pharisaical to people in such a rigid manner only creates an environment of dogmatic response as seen here.
Been listening to Rush since 75…It is not a pentagram, folks….It is an open stars! ANyway…Anyone that says Rush is satanic is ridiculous. End of story.
Seriously??
What a bunch of nonsense! The symbols are alchemical and some are even used still by certain sciences. I feel sorry for you people who see evil under every rock… and every records cover. You need serious therapy.
@ Age. You’re right. They’re more.
Nicole – You rock! Proud to have you as a fellow RUSH fan.
I love how the Bible Thumper has enough attention to detail to quote bible verses verbatim but can’t seem to spell anyone’s name correctly.
The problem with those who like to cherry pick the bible verses that suit their point of view is that there are so many other ones that don’t. Is it “an eye for an eye” or “turn the other cheek”? Almost anyone who’s ever taken an entry level religion class at a Christian high school or college knows that the stories in the bible originated as “campfire stories” that were passed down from generation to generation before eventually being put down on paper. That’s not to say that you ignore everything but some things need to be taken with a grain of salt to allow for the way that stories evolve over time. (Remember the telephone game from elementary school?) For example, nobody really knows how long Noah’s flood lasted so they just settled on “40 days”. Nobody really knows how long Moses’s people were wandering in the desert so they just settled on “40 years”. Nobody really knows how long Jesus’s excursion in the wilderness lasted (when he was tempted by Neil Peart, iiiii mean Satan) so they just setttled on 40 days. Some of the old testament people like Abraham and Methuselah lived for hundreds of years, those are just tall tales that got exaggerated over time. Those are just a few examples out of many to prove the larger point that the bible isn’t really God’s dictated word, it is a book ABOUT God that was created by mortals like ourselves.
So if you have to pledge blind verbatim belief in everything the bible says in order to call yourself a Christian, then you can count me out. For example, my least favorite bible story is after Abraham and Sarah tried for years and year to have a baby and finally succeeded with Isaac was born. So one day God tells Abraham to kill his son as a sacrifice…. as Abraham ties his only son to a tree and holds the knife up to do the deed, God says “Haha… Psyche! I was just testing you!” Really??? I am supposed to believe in a God that is so sadistic that he would tell someone to kill his own son just to see if he would do it? If that shit happened today Abraham would go directly to jail without passing Go. And if at his trial he used the defense of “God told me to do it” the reaction of Christians worldwide would be “Not the God we believe in!” Nor I.
To make a long story short, I’m neither impressed nor moved by Bible Thumper’s ability to quote chapter and verse.
Here’s what the name “Rush” actually means, and it has nothing to do with the devil. What it means is that over 40 years ago, Geddy Lee, John Rutsey, Alex Lifeson and a couple other guys who were in the very young band at the time were playing some of their own original songs in one of the “other guys” parent’s basement. An older brother of one of the “other guys” came down the stairs and listened. When the song was over, he said he thought their original music was really cool. “What are you guys calling your band?” He asked. They responded that they didn’t have a name yet. The older brother then said, “Well that music was a real rush. Why don’t you call your band that? Rush.” And that’s how they came up with the name Rush. Neil Peart didn’t join the band for about another 7 years or so.
RUSH….What can i say about all these comments?? I have been to 36 Rush concerts over the years. To me they are the best musicians ever. However, during the following of Rush , I accepted Christ as my personal savior. I have gone from being radical and judgemental to throwing out all my rush stuff to going full circle and NOT judging them and continuing to go to concerts. Rush writes a song called “faithless” and there are others. Personally, I love Rush, but just choose not to agree with some of their songs. Thats all, period. I named two of my kids after Rush (early on) and I still listen to the best music on the planet. The only difference now is that God is # 1 and Rush is a great band. Before it was Rush is # 1 and God was a crutch. Sincerly, Joe
The author of this article and many posters are extremely misinformed
The symbols are alchemical symbols relating to the steampunk theme of the “Clockwork Angels” album, not “occult” symbols.
The five pointed star used in Rush imagery is not a “pentagram”. There is a difference between the two.
No member of Rush has claimed any affinity with “Wicca”. Anyone stating that is an outright liar.
Geddy Lee is the only one raised in the Jewish faith.
Neil Peart has never claimed to be agnostic.
The song “The Camera Eye” has nothing to do with the occult. Anyone who makes that statement is clearly delusional.
The bible is not “absolute truth”. It is a collection of stories by humans who are flawed and inaccurate.
To believe in something without evidence is absolute foolishness.
To quote Mr. Peart, “Ignorance and prejudice and fear walk hand in hand”
I would hope that in the future Ms. Beyer would do proper research on her subject matter before posting articles such as this.
@lerxst: Alchemy is a very traditional part of occult studies. Heck, some of the historical alchemists described themselves as “occult philosophers.” I’m not sure what definition you’re working with. Are you perhaps reading more into my article than I’ve actually written?
Dear Lerxst:
Since you are so much smarter than the rest of us… prove LOVE exists. Show me the evidence it exists. Not results of it, but LOVE itself. Next, hold the ‘evidence’ up to your comments above. That’s what I thought.
- Robby Rush
P.S. My last name is Rush. Perhaps I should sue -them- for using MY name without MY permission, huh? You see, my family has had the name of Rush for the last 400-years.
P.S.S. You know absolutely nothing about the Occult.
# 15… Yer’ an Idiot
Jeff:
Wow… that comment was baby-ish. Now… get ready for your “nap time”.
Hey Robby! I thought you were done? Haha, wow. You’re awfully mean for being a good-hearted Christian. And thanks! I love being such a young person and knowing how incredible RUSH is!! I saw them live for the Time Machine Tour!! Sounded amazing! I’d seem them again in a heartbeat! Robby, why are you discussing this if you don’t like RUSH? Either appreciate them as talented musicians and intellectuals or shut up! Gosh!
Nicole:
Mean? I don’t think so, and as for being young… you are growing older right now!
I agree with Lerxt. Just because Rush borrowed the same symbols that Occult believers borrow, doesn’t mean they share that belief. Just like Ozzy Osbourne doesn’t automatically become the spokesman for the Vatican just because he uses a lot of crosses in his stage set. Just like little girls who watch the Little Mermaid are not being sucked into the Occult if they mimic King Triton’s magic trident which just happens to be at 9:00 on Rush’s Occult clock. Haha.
In Rush’s case, they’re just riffing off of the Steampunk theme. They also used tarot cards in their Vapor Trails artwork. They also used dice for Roll The Bones. It’s fun, it’s fiction, get over it.
Hey rockmcd-
I can’t really speak about dice, chicken bones, rabbits, rubber red balls, or dogs peeing on hydrants, but regarding the Tarot cards, THEY were reportedly an important and daresay saving grace in Neil’s life as he was working his way through the tragedies in the late-90’s- He spoke about it in an interview or white-paper or some kind of anecdote I read at the time of Vapor Trails where he lauded the knowledge, wisdom, and succor that the cards provided for him at the time, and again, helped him cathartize and recover from tragedies that none of of us would most likely wish on our enemies-
Maybe someone else here can I.D. the interview or monologue where he related this?
BTW, just for the record, I’m certainly not here to endorse, condone, advocate or whatever Tarot cards or the Occult or alchemy (although it WOULD be helpful in this economy!)- I’m just merely relating Neil’s stance on Tarot cards at the time- Who knows, he might’ve ditched ‘em by now for a more simple deck of UNO or the Ungame-
That’s creepy Robby! Don’t do that!
Greg – In Neil’s Ghost Rider book he told the story of how he visited a Tarot card reader, kinda did it just for fun and curiosity, and was surprised at how on-the-money some of the reader’s observations were.
It was like 10 years ago that I read that book and I’m not gonna go find it in my garage to quote from it, but to the best of my recollection he just thought it was very interesting but he didn’t really tie it into his emotional recovery at all.
In the recent Beyond The Lighted Stage documentary as well as some other stuff I’ve read, he credits the recovery of his “little baby soul” to simply keeping himself in motion the way parents will walk or drive around in the car with a fussy infant. Saying tarot cards were his saving grace sounds like a stretch.
I don’t mean to belittle your point and I’m obviously not Neil’s spokesperson, just saying that’s not what I remember reading about it.
Hey rockmcd-
Thanks for the reference, I was beginning to think that maybe that WAS where he talked about it, but like you, my copy is stashed away somewhere- And perhaps I might have stretched (unintentionally) the healing aspects of the cards for Neil, but like you said, I remember the reading was supposedly pretty spot on for where Neil was, and i also remember the cards have such a significance in his life (at least at that time) that he made it a point to include the pictures of the cards in the lyric booklet for Vapor Trails, which of course was their first album/disc since the tragedies- Thanks for your help!
Hey SavageReb-
Why in the world would you want your comments removed? I think they are relevant to the entire discussion here, you give a good useful testimony that describes your experiences with rock music and Rush, and your changed views. In addition, you speak with supportive evidence and opinion about other examples of occult symbology in previous Rush projects- Why the deletion request?
The only thing that I would differ with you on, and certainly we don’t need for this to become a biblical debate on this forum perhaps, is your insistence on not accepting the “Once Saved Always Saved” – I don’t agree with you on this point, and have studied it somewhat in depth, and of course we can agree to disagree agrreable (who loves to make that statement ;^) but the real question then is, At what point does someone actually LOSE their salvation? ANd then, when do they get it back? See, it becomes a roller coaster, of saved today, then whoops lost it tomorrow, but then hold on, I’ve got it again, and it goes on and on, saved, unsaved, saved, unsaved, based on our behavior from day to day?
The more tenable explanation from what I’ve studied I believe is mentioned in the first letter of John, where he talks about how those who fell away/walked away, were actually NEVER REALLY OF US-
And then there is the true, genuine existence of the so-called “Carnal Christians” – People who are actually saved, but are still battling with various aspects of the flesh, but God isw working on them, and with them-
But if grace is truly a FREE GIFT from God, having nothing to do with our works, then it’s hard to see how somebody, who has a genuine conversion to God, would or could then “lose” that salvation, as opposed to two of the four soils who appeared to be saved at first, but in actuality were never really saved-
OK enough of this sermon, just wanted to throw my thoughts out on this-
Greg
Honestly, if Rush was the kind of band to be Satanic, try would be open enough to share that they are. In my personal opinion, I really doubt they are Satanists. Geddy Lee is Jewish, how does that fit? I’d like to compare them to another band, called Slayer. This band constantly uses examples of Satanism, Nazism, Death, and other immoral topics. Through all of it, it’s all just to shock people. They are really Atheists who don’t belies in anyone…they just like “mess” with people. Going back to Rush, I don’t think they’d have the heart to make fun of religion and, again, immoral topics. Instead, I think they sing through perspective, point of view, opinion, philosophies, and other that they may not agree with. They’re highly intellectual, especially Neil Peart. I guess if you really wanted to stop listening to a band because of religious perspective…go ahead. I’m personally intrigued by such deeper thought topics then the average “sex, drugs, and rock n’ roll”. Then again, I like some of that music too as well as darker music. This is simply an opinion and maybe I’m not educated enough, but you can’t blame me for trying…I love this band!! They are amazing!!
Sorry, a few errors. Try=they. Belies=Believe. *They just like to “mess” with people”. Any other errors…I’m so very sorry.
Hey SavageReb-
Again, great points you made, in both posts-
I’d never heard Geddy’s views on God so to speak, of course Neil’s has been clear in interviews in the past-
I do wonder if Geddy’s views stem from his direct connection to family members who were Holocaust survivors, and realizing that when he was a child in the 50’s he probably heard and was more than aware of the horrors that his relatives, I don’t think it was his parents but grandparents? had gone, through, maybe a decade or less earlier- That’s like sharing with someone something that happened to you/us back in say 2002, 2003, which I remember like it was yesterday-
( In fact, just this week a friend of mine and I were blown away by the realization that Vapor Trails came out 10 YEARS AGO! He said to me, wasn’t that their big come-back album after like a 4-year hiatus? What the BLEEP!)
Anyway. have a good one-
Greg
Erps, I meant 6 year hiatus, just for the die-hard detailed Rush fans-
Dear Admin: Please delete ALL of my posts on this topic. Thank you!
Christian and a Rush fan here. I was not quite sure of what to make of the Caravan cover when I saw it. It “looked” occult but I have no information in front of me to say that it is occult. I would never claim to be knowledgable here. However, I listen to other progressive bands with much more overt occult leanings, such as King Crimson.
It has only been within the last few years that I’ve taken serious note of the occult imagery in some rock bands. At this point in my life (at 38), I feel like I kind of know too much to simply look the other way. It matters to me what people choose to write about and just what those messages mean to me. So, with Rush, I can only say that some of Peart’s lyrics are kind of pushing me away; I just don’t feel that his lyrics give me anything. This, in turn, diminishes my view of th music, too. It goes without saying but I am revising a lot of what I spend my time doing and focusing on.
Call me old, boring, etc. but I am kind of over Rush……..
I think many of you are injecting a meaning where there really is none. This from the Rush web site:
“Lyrically, “CLOCKWORK ANGELS” chronicles a young man’s quest across a lavish and colorful world of steampunk and alchemy as he attempts to follow his dreams. The story features lost cities, pirates, anarchists, an exotic carnival, and a rigid Watchmaker who imposes precision on every aspect of daily life. The novelization of “CLOCKWORK ANGELS” is being written by science fiction writer Kevin J. Anderson in collaboration with Rush drummer and lyricist Neil Peart.”
There’s nothing vicious here – it’s a work of fiction. I for one can’t wait to read it.
Peace
The official “Rush” website for their new album Clockwork Angels states that the album chronicles the life of “a young man’s quest…alchemy…’ I am sorry, but Alchemy is a medieval practice of trying to turn base metal into gold, silver, etc… by using Science AND Magic. It IS an Occult art, so once again “Rush” fans, they are using Occultic imagery in their music.
@ Greg.: The story about the Tarot reading does appear in Ghost Rider. Neil got a reading while walking along Venice Beach and was impressed with how spot-on the reading was. He says that later he got a deck of his own and learned to read. Not sure if he still does but the song “Peaceable Kingdom” on Vapor Trails appears to come from his knowledge of the cards.
Justice against The Hanged Man
Knight of Wands against the hour
Swords against the kingdom
Time against The Tower
All this time we’re shuffling and laying out all our cards
While a billion other dealers are slipping past our guards
All this time we’re hoping and praying we all might learn
While a billion other teachers are teaching them how to burn
And Robby… “Occult” doesn’t necessarily equal evil. You show your ignorance and fear (which we know walk hand-in-hand with prejudice) in every post you make. Take your real-life Witch hunt somewhere else.
To the rest of you RUSH fans – enjoy the new album and tour. I know I will!
Tery:
I am not afraid of you or anything else so your comment was stupid, and as far as the Occult goes, you wouldn’t know a Witch if they kissed you on the lips! Tarot Cards are a form of Divination, which belongs to the Occult. Too bad that you don’t know good music apart from this slap-stick noise.
rush sucks balls.
and he sounds like a woman.
you all suck for caring at all about them.
to SiriusJoe;
can you tell me what the B in R.U.S.H. stands for?
omg you do not know what you speak.